tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC May 18, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
rules matter less about the power who is winning. the rules just address that we put on power. michael steele and sam cedar of the majority report. >> that's right. >> listen to it. it's a great podcast. that's it. rachel maddow starts now. >> good evening. be have the bobby jindal derived solution. >> you have come up with the cry tier yan that separates the wheat from the chaff? >> no. but it will do something. thanks appreciate t. and thanks to as well as home for joining us. we have two great guests tonight. frank rich tonight in person and the one and only dan rather will join me in just a moment. very exciting. all right. 35 years ago today. it started as a magnitude 5.1 earthquake. and a large earthquake is almost never a good thing but when it
happens one mile beneath a huge active volcano it can be the start of something that feels a little like the end of the world. when that earthquake happened a mile beneath mt. st. helens 35 years ago today thus started a huge volcanic eruption in the couldn't nental united states. it blew 1300 feet off the top of that mountain in washington straight. the whole north side of that mountain collapsed and quickly. that collapse was the largest lackedslide in recorded history. rock and searing hot gases shot sideways out of the collapsed mountain going hundreds of miles an hour. trees came down as far as 12 mile away from the initial blast. the eruption started that morning at mt. st. ount st. helen's at 8:30 in the morning. kept erupting all day long until it ended finally at 5 p.m. that volcanic eruption shot 500
million tons of volcanic ash in the air. that rose in a huge vertical column that went straight up for 15 miles then started drifting. it started spreading around the globe. by lunch time the ash from the volcanic eruption was raining down in significant quantity on the city of spokane which is 250 mile as way from mount st. helen's two weeks that ash cloud had traveled all of the way east across the united states. all of the way across the atlantic ocean, all of the way across asia and had started to come back around the other side of the world. that ash cloud had circled the globe within 15 days and what happened in the air is so massive and so hard to get your head around, the ash and the way it traveled has become sorts of the indelible image of what that eruption was like 35 year as today but for the communities very nearby to mount st. helen's
what was in the air eventually subsided. it's what happened on the ground that even 35 years later they're still rfg to cope with the the largest landslide in history physically changed their world. when the top of that mountain blew off and the north side of that mountain collapsed the debris from that in less than ten minutes filled an adjacent river valley. 25 square miles of that river valley to an average depth of 150 feet in less than ten minutes. imagine taking this huge river valley filling it with degree the height of a 12 to 15-story building, and it all happens in less than ten minutes. one of the rivers that flows through that part of washington d.c. state is the mighty, mighty columbia river. mount st. helen's eruption basically stopped the columbia
river. p t put sediment and mudslide into the river. to get the columbia river open again. and smaller rivers buried under ash, mud, sand, the army corpse of engineers starred dredging that immediately after the eruption and that process went on for years after mount st. helen's erupted in 1980. the seattletimes books back today saying the amount of stuff they dredged out of the rivers was enough material to build a 12-lane highway from new york city to san francisco. next to the rivers. and the little up to of causal rock, washington, the dredge piles where dozens and dozen of acres basically created this moon skaip of this dredged-up ash and sand and sediment that nobody knew what to do with but
they had to do the dredging to try to save the down. above castle rock is a lake called spirit lake and spirit rake took a brupt of this eruption. spirit lake had so much sediment dumped into it by the mount st. helen's eruption that the surface level of spirit p lake rose by 210 feet. and that's up above castle rock and so that nightmare, that potential nightmare, is looming over the town of castle rock. and it still is. they eventually built a tunnel to channel outflow from that lake so it would not loom so dangerously for the town. now 35 years later they are worried now they might have to go in and widen that tunnel because it's filling up today with that sediment again and threatening the town again. mount st. helen's blew up 35 years ago today. it killed 57 people and it changed the shape of the earth. it moved rivers, turned a
mountain into a crater. 35 years later it is still posing challenges. the "statele times" today does have one remarkable article. and it notes one bright spot, basically, in the mount st. helen's aftermath wh which about that little town of castle rock. the seattle times said the little town of castle rock decided what to do with some of that sand and ash that almost buryied them 35 years ago. volcanic sand is useful in playing fields and sand traps and. and now the city of castle rock is managing the sediment pile blue selling its volcanic sand. the town is earning some money thousands of dollar, some years tens of thousands of dollars
god speed. i wish them all of the best. what a challenge. it is hard but probably good to be able to look back at that one big disaster that really felt in a lot of ways, like the end of the world. it's hard but good to look back at something like that something that consequencely disastrous and find maybe the one nice thing there is to say about it. that is also what we're doing in american presidential politics right now. when it comes to blindably finding some nice thing to say about the biggest disaster in american foreign policy at least since vietnam. >> knowing what we know now, what would you have done? i would have not engaged. i would have not gone into iraq. that is not to say the world is safer because saddam hussein is gone? it's significantly safer. >> turns out you can sell the sand. there's that.
was the iraq war a disaster? you know. saddam saddam's gone. was it a mistake to go to war in iraq? >> i don't believe -- the world is a better place because saddam hussein doesn't run iraq. >> was it a mistake to go to war with iraq? >> it was not a mistake given the world at the time. >> that wasn't the question. >> but i was asked based on what i know now. >> was it a mistake to go to war with iraq? >> i understand but that's not the same quest. >> that's the question i'm asking. >> it was not a mistake for the president to decide to go into iraq. >> i'm not asking you that. >> in hindsight the world is a better place because saddam hussein is not there. >> i don't under the question you're asking. >> i don't understand the question you're ask. whether we should have started -- saddam's gone. that's good right? presidential candidates marco
rubio and soon to be presidential candidate jeb bush getting dinged on the campaign trail. both suffered a slew of embarrassing headlines and badly handled questions about whether the u.s. invaded iraq. jeb bush said he would have invaded iraq, and would not have invaded iraq and then said he didn't under the question. somebody else said to him said maybe he misheard the question. marco rubio said at one point not understanding the question. over the past week he changed his statements whether or not the iraq war was a mistake and he had this awkward interview on sunday yesterday when chris wallace confronted marco rubio and his evolution on this issue. the problem is not whether they are good about talking about this. whether they figured out how to
make sure they sound consistent as they answer it in different contexts talking to different people about it. the problem is not skill. the problem is not whether they are good answering the question. the larger problem is what is seen as the correct answer to this question. because, while jeb bush and marco rubio have been getting in trouble on style points for not exactly knowing what to say and supposedly flubbing this answer. these are the guys that have been judged by the beltway media to be acing this question. >> i think it was a failure in many cases of the intelligence given to the president and congress at the time. >> knowing then what we know now. no wmd in iraq, et cetera. was that the right decision to go to war? >> no. it wasn't. i think president bush made the best decision he could at the time given that his intelligence community was telling him there was wmd. >> if you care about the worst foreign policy disaster in a
generation, and making sure that something like that does not happen again in our country, on the one hand it's kind of exciting to be talking iraq, right? it's kind of exciting to be see everybody talk about george w. bush's decision to invade iraq and what is right or wrong about that decision. it's one way exciting that this is finally a matter of high level political discussion. it's also disconcerting to see the republican party and beltway press settling on an explanation what happened that is not what happened because of the war in iraq. the war did not start because of an intelligence failure. it was not an intentional oops by an administration that had no idea the intelligence was wrong. that's not what happened. when president bush said saddam hussein was buying uranium in africa that was a discredited
claim. when he said iraq and al qaeda was working together. and one of the terrorists was meeting with them it was pretty well confirmed. not only did it never happen. the intelligence community did not believe it hand but vice president cheney said it anyway. said it was pretty well confirmed and who are we to question him. the bush administration made a decision they wanted to go to war in iraq. they built a public case that they thought would provide a good protect for going to war in iraq. it was not the cia that cooked it up. it was political folks. they told us the smoking gun would be a mushroom claude. if we didn't invade iraq there's a possibility of atomic blast in the west. saddam had nuclear capability. when they want the to sell that story about saddam buying aluminum tubes for his nuclear program that lie was leaked from
vice president cheney's office to judith miller. she wrote an article what his office told her after his own office had given her that information. dick cheney said. you know it's reported in "the new york times" that saddam has these aluminum tubes in his nuclear program. all of that history is known now. it's documented. it's well-understood history that the bush administration got us to go to war in iraq. it t wasn't the cia, it was the bush administration. the bush administration was not passively lied to. they were not duped by the cia. they made the case they thought would be most persuasive even though it wasn't true. they made that decision to go that way. at a political level. and in many cases the case that they made was a made-up case. they picked little true mingthings and cast them in a way that made
the case because they wanted that war. the people that did it did not want to admit it because it would be a terrible thing to admit. people like judith miller got fired and the country turned on bush and cheney with a vengeance. the country realized that the iraq war was a mistake but we went there for reasons that were not what we were told an there's this line of defense of people still trying to excuse the iraq war saying it was an honest mistake even if it was a mistake. that ought to be seen what it is. as a selfie serving defense to avoid responsibility because taking response act for something like that, whoo! usually that's how it feels when you see them articulate that defense, right? usually you can tell that's what is going on. they don't want to accept responsibility. so they cast themselves in the best possibly light h. you see
jon steward hosting judith miller. >> i believe you helped the administration take us to the most devastating mistake in foreign policy that you made in 100 year bus you seem lovely. >> that's what the intelligence community believed. >> no, that's what they believed jon. >> all right. we're never going to see eye to eye on it. i agreeppreciate you coming on the program. these discussions always make me incredibly sad because i feel like they point to institutional failure at the highest levels and no one will take responsibility for it. >> i think they point to -- >> and pass the buck to every individual other than themselves. >> i think they point to intelligence failures that i still worry about every day because we're still relying on the same intelligence communities to give us information about iran north
korea, pakistan and other countries that we get to deal with. >> hopefully given the same effort we get to invade all of them soon. >> we won't. >> it's satisfying and satisfying to see jon stewart take judith miller apart. it continues to deflect from her own responsibility for starting the iraq war under false pretenses. on another level yes that's satisfying to see but we are back in the situation again where great liberal heroes like jon steward and paul krugñtw7óu in "the new york times" and great josh marshall and greg sargent in "the washington post" arguing passionately this was not an intelligence failure. the bush administration lying us into war. that's kind of the left. the republican political position and main stream media
position on the iraq war in 2015 is now becoming something that's not that. when these republican presidential candidates get flubbed on iraq, when they come up with the answer that the iraq war was the right decision at the time. there was just bad intelligence. and, oh, by the way it's nice saddam's gone. by and large that's treated as the right answer. you know, sunday morning that doesn't get followed up with questions rebutted. that's seen as the correct answer. if the hard questions we ask themselves about the iraq war is whether or not there's a more stable or less stable anwar purchase against wh w saddam go if that's the hard question. we're arguing with the merits of where to sell volcanic ash and sand after the volcanic disaster. it's not what the side effect is
what you feel good or bad about. the problem is not how did it work out the problem is, how do we go to war on the basis of a click rat lie? that's the question and if that's not what we are debating. it doesn't matter what the answer is. joining us now is dan rather host of the big interview on axis tv. dan, thanks for being here. >> i'm glad to be here. >> i love covering politics because it gives us these moments of p who we are as a country, who wekñ5: want to be and have big fights about important things. i'm excited we're fighting about iraq and bereft how we're fighting it. how do you see this issue? >> first of all, i see something as the american people as a whole understand, they understand going into iraq was a strategic blunder of historic
proportions with terrible consequences that echo for a long time. they understand this is a colossal mistake. if i'm a budge, and frequently i'm not. they talk about what do they do now? iraq several trillion dollars went, more importantly 4,500 or so of how best men and women american men and women died in that battlefield tens of thousands of iraqi died -- >> thins of thousands. >> this is as a result of this colossal mistake. i think the american people see this clearly for what it is. i think they are surprised stunned. i tend to use the word, sort of super pie fooid by the republican candidates who responded thus far particularly former governor jeb bush and marco rubio, that they seem to be up prepared for the question. now, let's see it clearly.
these are two intelligent men and they do have a record of public service of their own and not like them but nonetheless. these are not dumb people. how and why they made these mistakes with former governor bush giving four different answers to the question as you pointed out marco rubio giving several answers to the question. i don't under. they are too intelligent to do this and they continue to do this and give the impression eggs that they would score in the high 90s on a dumb test. no one would give these kind of answers. it's still early in the campaign, still a long way to go. and can they recover? i think the answer is probably they can. but, it leaves unanswered two question. number one how and why did this happen? they're too smart for this. they're too experienced for this and each of them by the way, have they strong very smart
advisers. i know some adviser i'm mystified how this happens. the other question is are we going to ask ourselves the really tough questions. >> yes. exactly. >> and are we going to seek answers to the really tough questions or just plow around the base of the mountain of this business? i think those of the important things. >> do you have faith the campaign either through the process of journalists covering the campaign, interviewing these candidates or debates and the way they go on. do you have faith the campaign process can do that hard work? got the gotcha stuff but the real hard work? >> i do not have faith. i have hope. hope springs eternal to use the cliche. i don't have hope in it because it's been the case in the past. i think we have to remember in the background of this, i think one of the answers possibly, why did they do this. why did they bungle answers to the obvious question they ask. this will be a $5 billion-plus
presidential campaign. one much the reasons candidates get in trouble early on with the answers, they are trying to give answers that will satisfy their biggest contributors the kind that give $100 million at a shot. that's only explanation i can come up with why they are staggering around with it. >> and any strong statement what was wrong, who was wrong and how it was done wrong. potentially, either offend somebody or closes off potential analysis or course of action that they may have to take at some point in the campaign. >> it's part of debates what we call as debates they are not debates. they are glorified press conferences. this has been the case almost from the beginning. we shouldn't kid ourselves when we say will the debates deal with this? we are asking ourselves, will glorified press conferences passed off as debates, will they deal with that? i don't have faith it will happen but i have high hopes. >> this year i high v high hopes
op the debates. chaos on the debate stuff makes me hopeful something surprising will happen there. dan rather it's my pleasure. great to you have there, thanks. >> dan rather is the host of "le big interview" on axs tv. we have a big show tonight. frank richt will join us, stay with us. "how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask. maybe the better question is why do you have that insurance company? with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.
we have a stacked show tonight. we heard from dan rather. we'll have dave rich. the news of the shooting. a news of a clutch of embarrassing resignations. all of that plus the jindal solution to the republican debate problem that has me so very excited. lots to come. stay with us. ♪ the new, twenty-fifteen ford focus believes in "more." more to see. more to feel. ♪
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here's one thing to consider about the deadly massive biker gang riot that happened yesterday in waco texas. there were at least five rival gangs killed 9 people killed 18 people rounded. hundreds of weapons recovered including knife, chain brass knuckles and guns. police apparently had been worried something would happen yesterday at this site. they knew where the gangs were turning up. police had s.w.a.t team members stationed by where they thought the riot would happen. that was not enough to stab that from happening or awful these people kill. here's the thing, once you got 9 people dead and 18 september to the hospital and 150, more like
170 biker gang members arrested. where do you put them? right? i mine, if they're killing each other in a 200-pig pile no that involves not just stubbings but blunt force trauma on an inek stale, can you put them together once you've arrested them? police detained suspect on site to where the melee happened. that showed pictures of people picked up at a college party that got rowdy. after calming them. waco police decided to put them on buses and sent them to the waco convention center for processing. they stayed overnight. all of these rival gang members stayed overnight at the convention center last night and booked them into the county jail today. they are still being processed today. so far 170 suspends arrested,
all expected to face organized crime charges linked to capital murder and now, in the wake of this nine-dead massacre with all of these guys in custody and processing. waco has fun days ahead. now the jail houses 170 violent gang members than they did before. they are not in the same gang but rival gangs trying to kill each other and tried heardly to do that. and members of the gang were killed in a gang battle that means some sort of terrified gang cycle among gangs is about to start. that's a prospect that loom over the ongoing investigation that loom over the crime scene. not every member of the motorcycle gangs were arrested or killed in the melee. who knows how the rest will respond to what happened in
waco. but as police investigators were collecting evidence at the crime scene yesterday and today, they were watched over by a team of police snipers who set up on the roof of the restaurant and on nearby highway overpasses to keep the investigators safe. police say they received multiple threats in retaliation of arrests. there's reports of other gang members flooding into waco in response to the shootout. law enforcement say they upped security of all kinds in response. so, 9 killed, 18 wounds, 170 rested already in waco and with that riot resolved. consider what they have got on their hans in the jail, consider yeah, 10 gigantic gigs. for $80 a month. and $15 per line. more data than ever. for more of what you want.
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1st. that said, i'm not sure what he could announce other than what he's saying already. there's absolutely no mystery as to what his announcement will be he's been announcing it for weeks now. >> i'm running because of what you see on television. i'm running because i think the world is falling apart. >> as you can see he's not actively nonmetaphorically running, he's talking about running for president. that's described as lindsey graham hotting he is running for president. by hotting saying he's running directly for president without any hitting about it at all. so he's in. today we got the news that louisiana governor bobby jindal is fashioning an exploratory committee. he's now talking about whether or not he'll run. clearly he's running too. this is a running master tally of declared and likely
presidential candidates this year we started with 22. so far we're only able to whit tl down. the only people we took off the list is rick snyder and jack bolton who said they are not running. other than that, they are all apparently still in it which creates a fascinating numerical challenge for the republican party with how they hold debates with that many people in the running. last week jonathan martin reported on the republican party going through this process and arguments about how they'll do the whole 20-plus candidates debate thing. he reported this intrigueing nows what the bobby jindal camp is asking for. what the bobby jindal camp is reportedly pushing for is a new debate idea they've never done before. one idea they've floated is back-to-back debates with seven eight candidates in each chosen at random.jindal folks are
lobbying for it heats, back-to-back debates featuring 20 candidates. maybe that's three debates with seven candidates each, randomly assigned. do you do six heats of four three cheats of eight four cheats of 12, what if it's a prime number. if it is three heats of seven. do you run them through in one night? does it go fire drill style where everybody changes podiums? and they stay on the same set? is it a tag team? once you get tired you pull in another candidate to replace you. once you randomly get picked for a certain debate. can you swap? arrange a heat? maybe you're scott walker and you don't want to go against donald trump?
can you switch with chris christie and go up against hand paul? will it be p like "survivor" can one candidate vote another off the podium? rand paul, the contribute has spoken. can they use tiki torches for elimination? why not do it imagine madness style where they do one onion debates and we can watch it in a bracket. i would like to see ben carson debate jeb bush. marco rubio fierce us carly yore ina. we get to bet on them. have an office poll. seriously, who the field of republican candidates is right? the candidates from whom the republican party will choose their nominee from the president of the united states? is a rip-roaringly important
thing for our country and for the world and future of mankind. if you want to extrapolate from the american presidency it's an important thing but how they pick is an absolutely hilarious mystery. how will they do that at this point? hold that thought. frank rich joins us next. ompany to show you their rates and their competitors' rates but that's precisely what we do. going up! nope, coming down. and if you switch to progressive today you could save an average of over 500 bucks. stop it. so call me today at the number below. or is it above? dismount! oh, and he sticks the landing!
oh, the silent treatment. real mature. so you wanna get out of here? go national. go like a pro. seriously is epa the one you're talking about? >> no, sir. no, sir. we're talking about agencies of government. epa needs to be rebuilt. no doubt about that. >> but you can't name the third one? >> agency of government, i would do away with education the -- i -- >> commerce and, let's see -- >> oh, my. >> i can't. the third one, i can't. sorry. oops. >> if you thought the last time out was fun. now imagine that happening. except, there's 20 different people ongr÷ stage. what could possibly go wrong or
write? oops. joining us is frank rich, writer at large or "new york magazine." mr. rich thank you for being here. >> great to be here, nice to see you. >> i can tell you, i have great hope. i feel necessity is the mother of invention. logistic cal invention on the republican side, they have this huge number of candidates and no way to exclude them makes for a chaotic process that will necessarily be better only because it will be less predictable and we'll see more what we should know about these guys. >> approximately right. also incredibly entertaining even if it doesn't produce the result we want. you were saying about "survivor" being the model we use. why not "the apprentice." trump would love to license it to them with nbc's permission. only problem is trump would be a candidate.
we would have to find someone else to say "you're fired." bill o'reilly would be good at it. >> or prop a big mirror next to him. something you don't want to show on tv. >> y objects in the mirror are closer than they appear. >> also they can have a lightning round about iraq and if you stutter more than twice, you're gone. then have a second lightning round about rape. then a third lightning round about same-sex marriage and see who still doesn't -- standing don't have an "oops" moment. >> i have to say, i feel like i agree with republicans who have been trying to spin the giant field as a plus. >> yeah. >> they don't have anybody who is inheriting the nomination. jeb bush has all of the money. he doesn't poll well. it won't be easy for him. won't be easy for anybody. makes their process all the more important. we are at a time where we ought
to have good policy debates as a country. i'm heartened we're talking about iraq even though we're talking about it like idiots, we don't know what really happen. but the topic is a good one. is there something the media can do or the republicans can arrange or the campaigns can set up to make the process better? >> i think give it more air time. i think people would actually want to watch it. it will be more interesting than watching hillary clinton hypothetically, at least debate a couple opponents who really have no chance, if i may say so. so, people can really get that it. what is interesting, the republican can't quite pivot to the fact that it might be a blessing because after the last election, after romney's defeat. they made this big show of we're going streamline the process we're not going to have the circus we had in primary season last time.
they completely lost control of this. they should go with it. foxnews which is doing the first debate. who says it has to be 90 minutes. give the democrats equal time or whatever. i don't know if they're controlled by -- >> that's not until you're in the general elections. >> exactly. so is the rest of what is going on more entertaining? it would be ill lair just. >> right. i do feel there's a carlic whiplash going on, from the time they earlied up the convention. they came up with rules to prohibit them from doing debates. they shortened up the debate schedule. the only thing they department control is who is going to run. nows it 8 times three. >> it's fantastic. it's tragic john bolton is not running but you can't have having. but look at rand paul who is such a wild card and has an independent streak from the rest of the party. be great to have iminteracting.
ben carson is a completely untrained political can day they should go with it. if you feel as i do hillary clinton's election is hardly a forgone conclusion. why not make the most of it. >> i think the jindal's campaign for heats where people get randomly assigned provided you give them chance to trade with each other and tag team and switch things up, will be the greatest greatestest -- >> the voice" high rankings. >> frank rich, thanks for being with us. stop less. go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. just one reason volkswagen is the #1 selling diesel car brand in america.
so there's this belief out there that disasters come in threes. i don't know if i'm super city shus enough to believe that is true. i do know that there are three types of political resignations. of those three types, two of them are always disasters. we're seeing each of them happen right now in tonight's news. that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ at chase, we celebrate small businesses every day through programs like mission main street grants. last years' grant recipients are achieving amazing things. carving a name for myself and creating local jobs. creating more programs for these little bookworms. bringing a taste of louisiana to the world. at chase, we're proud to support our grant recipients and small businesses like yours. so you can take the next big step.
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which is generally called oh my god how is it possible that that guy hasn't resigned yet. right now, we are experiencing all three. >> the wait here continues. members of the media gathered outside the speaker's office. some members have been here since 2:30 this afternoon. >> that was last week in the state of missouri. the speaker of the house had barricaded himself inside the house of the state legislature for more than eight hours. those reporters followed him down the stairs and followed him to his car while he refused to answer their questions. that morning, the kansas city star published a series of sexually explicit text messages between the most powerful man in the state legislature in missouri and a 19-year-old
intern. you can read them yourself if you would like to. but the speaker admitted sending these texts to the teenage intern. that night he barricaded himself in his office all night. by the next morning, john deal was gone. he resigned his seed in the legislature entirely. so this all happened in a flash last week. it was right at the end of the legislative session in missouri. they had to swear in a new speaker of the house. there was only 7 hours left remaining in the whole legislative session for the year. sexual texts to teenager in the morning paper apologized and said he wouldn't quit during the day, got chased by reporters. and then gone by the next morning. 24 hours soup to nuts. that's missouri. then there's new hampshire. this is one of the state's two
members of congress. republican frank guinta. i've said it so many ways. i have it on good authority that it's guinta. i apologize. they found he had accepted $355,000 in illegal campaign contributions from his mom and dad. congressman now has to refund all that money to his parents and pay a $15,000 fine. he does continue to proclaim his innocence in this matter. he's offered an explanation. it's an explanation that his koebt republican chair called more plausible than the explanation we got from the patriots on deflategate. so that's a ringing endorsement. they said the congressman should resign from congress. so did the state senate present president who is a republican. new hampshire's conservative
newspaper not only published an editorial entitled he must go, the paper also ran this special pictorial editorial. and this is it. this is the entire editorial. it's six words. frank guinta is a damned liar. as of this moment, he is still a congressman. but it is going to be hard for him to avoid resigning. so resignation accepted in missouri. resignation eagerly anticipated in new hampshire. but in the state of vermont believe it or not, apparently we've got no resignation in that state's legislative scandal. seriously, this guy is still a senator. >> the 63-year-old senator who lives in this home allegedly forced his female farm workers to engage in sexual acts according to investigators. victims were told they could live in this trailer in exchange
for sex. at least one victim told police the senator offered to take her to a farm where she could have sex with a group of farm hands for more money. >> the investigation into him continues. police are speaking to other lawmakers on the matter. they say more charges are possible. one of his alleged victims has said publicly that she was definitely 16 but maybe even 15 when he started abusing her. which would put him on the hook of charges for assault or rain of a child potentially. his colleagues have called for his resignation. they've said they are looking into ways to expel him. but the legislatured wrapped up its session on friday. he hasn't stepped down. so he's still a senator getting paid by the good people of vermont. there's no provision to remove him from office. so the lieutenant governor now says any action probably
couldn't even happen until the legislature reconvened in january. if he is convicted before then, he will then automatically lose his seat. if his trial is ongoing he could remain a state senator for the whole rest of the year while out on bond on sex crime charges. politicians disgrace comes in lots of different varieties. but disgrace and ceasing to be good evening lawrence. >> with that one, you have left me speechless. that is absolutely stunning. >> you and the entire state of vermont. that's exactly right. >> that's amazing. former white house counter terrorism expert richard clark will join us and how republican presidential candidates are handling questions about iraq. and senator elizabeth